185: Is There a Driver Shortage or Just a Driver Turnover Problem? Featuring Lewie Pugh of OOIDA

During this week’s episode of the Oakley Podcast, host Jeremy Kellett is joined by Lewie Pugh, Executive Vice President of Owner-Operator Independent Drivers Association (OOIDA). In this conversation, Jeremy and Lewie tackle the trucking industry’s challenges, particularly driver turnover. Lewie argues that the issue isn’t a shortage of drivers but the high turnover rates, exacerbated by poor treatment and inadequate pay. They also discuss the negative effects of over-regulation and the need for better training to enhance road safety, the future of trucking, including potential legislative changes, the importance of respecting and improving conditions for truckers, making trucking a more appealing career, and more. 

Key topics in today’s conversation include:

  • Introducing Lewie and the topics for the episode (2:17)
  •  Driver shortage or driver turnover? (4:08)
  • Challenges Faced by Truck Drivers (7:16)
  • Impact of Regulations on Driver Retention (12:12)
  • Need for Driver Education and Training (16:18)
  • Cyclical Nature of Trucking Industry (19:35)
  • Future of the Trucking Industry (21:56)
  • The value of trucking (22:39)
  • Company’s responsibility to drivers (25:01)
  • Driver’s time and pay (28:08)
  • Advocacy for truck drivers (30:22)
  • Joining OOIDA (31:52)
  • Appreciation for truck drivers (33:34)

Oakley Trucking is a family-owned and operated trucking company headquartered in North Little Rock, Arkansas. For more information, check out our show website: podcast.bruceoakley.com.


Lewie Pugh  00:12

From our point of view, my point of view and most of truck drivers point of view I would say there is no driver shortage at all there’s a driver turnover problem is a huge problems, I’m sure with you guys from what I know about your company and how you operate and some friends and people that I’ve known for over two years, you probably don’t have much of a turnover problem because you treat your people right. The problem is for some of these bigger over the road, especially just freight me in a van holotype jobs, it’s in and out so much they have over 90% turnover rate a lot of times in these companies, and they’re going out the back door as fast as they’re coming in the front door. It seems like and, and that’s really a broken model.

Jeremy Kellett  00:56

Welcome to the Oakley podcast, trucking, business, and family. This show is brought to you by Oakley Trucking, headquartered in North Little Rock, Arkansas. The purpose of this podcast is to communicate with Oakley owner-operators and their families by giving them up-to-date information concerning Oakley Trucking and the trucking industry. From business advice to safety updates to success stories. Also to give an inside to outside truck drivers that might be interested in joining the Oakley family. Welcome to the Oakley podcast, trucking, business and family. My name is Jeremy Kellett, Director of Recruiting here at Oakley trucking and I’m your host for this podcast. On today’s episode I am sitting down with the Vice President of OOIDA. His name is Lewie Pugh. We’ve actually sat down and visited before I had him on the podcast before and talked about several things. But me and him today we sat down and we talked about a couple of things. But one is driver turnover versus driver shortage. It’s an interesting conversation we’re having. We’re talking about too many regulations in the trucking industry and how that affects guys getting out of the trucking industry and how to fix new ones coming in. We also talk about, you know, truck drivers that are underpaid and overworked. We touch on that a little bit, we touch on technology a little bit and what the futures lock from OOIDA perspective and what Lewie thinks that the future looks like for the trucking industry. If you don’t know what o da is it is owner operators, independent driver Association. They’re 150,000 Plus members strong. They’re advocates for protecting drivers rights and they do a fantastic job at doing it . they’re always working with the you know, the state and the federal government’s on trying to protect drivers rights. So great organization, great people I encourage you to check them out. Go to their website and and sign up become a member if you’re not but listen to this episode some great information from from the man and Louis at Ottawa da and I hope you enjoy

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Jeremy Kellett  03:53

I want to talk about this driver shortage. I read an article she sent I guess when you just get on into it if you’re ready to Oh, so whenever I’m always Yeah, so I was reading an article this morning that she sent me that kinda was talking about what she wanted to talk about when it came to driver shortage. And the article was, you know, it had different views on it from should we invest, you know, government money into retention? Don’t keep the truck drivers at the job or should we, you know, spend the money up front to get more truck drivers training and you know, with the, with the local and the state department of trying to get them to, you know, get more drivers in more training, better facilities, all this stuff and, you know, she goes on through this article and talks about turnover and you know, just a few different things and got me to thinking too about driver shortage, which I’ve never really been I’ve never been asked about it much other than here in the office, we talk about it. But I’m so caught up into my own Oakley trucking world, that I don’t see a whole lot of the outside like you do, Louis. So tell me to our listeners, what is the outside view of this truck driver shortage that they talk about?

Lewie Pugh  05:20

Well, from our point of view, my point of view and most truck drivers point of view, I would say, there is no driver shortage at all, there’s a driver turnover problem which is a huge problem. I’m sure with you guys, from what I know about your company and how you operate from friends and people that I’ve known. It’s worked here over the years, you probably don’t have much of a turnover problem, because you treat your people right. And like he told me, you got people waiting to come there to work we’re talking. So that’s a good thing and, and private fleets in your LTL companies, a lot of them, that’s what they have, you know, I thought the guy for days got a job. He said that the only way to get job hunters if somebody dies. Because it was good pay, they treated their people. Wow. And so that’s a good thing. The problem is, for some of these bigger over the roads, especially just freight, Van Hollen type jobs, it’s in and out so much they have over 90% turnover rate a lot of times in these companies. And they’re going out the back door as fast as they’re coming in the front door, it seems like and, and that’s really a broken model. I remember being on a meeting in Ohio was one of these carriers one time that had this issue. And they were trying to get money, like we were talking about from the state of Ohio, and to fund training of truckers. And I was like, Well, you know, we were pushing back against that. And I’m from Ohio, originally, too. So I was pushing back with my elected officials. And we were trying to come to common ground. And they’re like, Well, you don’t understand what it’s like for us. Because we hire these people, we have an expensive burden of hiring them. But then they only stay for like a year or so, get some experience and leave. And I said, Well, have you ever thought maybe if you paid them a little better? They might stick around? And she’s like, well, that’s just did they leave for better paying jobs? I said, Well, there’s your

Jeremy Kellett  07:14

answer, right? How hard is that to figure out? Exactly.

Lewie Pugh  07:18

And I mean, I understand people can start at the top, and we have to, you know, you have to pay accordingly to experience but that’s the problem. And you know, if you know, and I know anybody’s been this way, this isn’t a Monday through Friday, 40 hour week job. This is a 7080 hour week job, you’re away from home, you know, some guys for weeks on end. You know, if you’re lucky, some of these guys are lucky to be home for 34 hours to get to restart and right back at it again. You can’t expect people to work like that. And give away how many hours you know, I don’t imagine you have this much trouble with Oakley. But all these places have warehouses and stuff, giving away 2030 hours a week waiting to load or unload and getting no pay for that. Maybe getting pulled over by patrol spend an hour getting respect and you get no paved the way you make money making miles. And you know, with the parking shortage and all these other problems. You can’t expect people to come in and do this job for 50 or $60,000 a year, expect them to stick around when it’s 70 hours a week, because that’s what they always leave out. It’s like, oh, it starts at $50,000 or 60,000. Well, yeah, that sounds really good. Do you start figuring the hours and all the stuff you have to put up with to be in trucking? It’s a hard job. That’s

Jeremy Kellett  08:39

right. And you know, that’s a really good point, because you can’t really compare it and I think that the people that are saying that I mean they don’t know what’s involved in like you say it into a week of a guy’s it’s a guy gets home on the weekends, if he’s lucky. You know what all he goes through, and how many hours he puts in for that pay. And a lot of that unpaid time goes by. And I think I don’t. I’ve never understood the course only being here at Oakley Louis, I’ve never understood why people don’t want to pay to keep a good one. It’s almost like and I just have to go on what I hear a lot from truck drivers that come over here because, you know, it’s almost like there’s a lot of trucking companies that are anti truck drivers. I mean, he’s like, I don’t get it. I’m like, There’s what makes you pay. I mean, those I would think would be the first people you take care of. But you know, I hear the guys tell me stories. Oh, you can’t hear. This is weird. I’ve never been able to go into the office and just talk to my dispatcher and walk up to his desk. I’ve never been able to do that. I’ve always had to wait in a waiting area behind the glass. I never could go talk to him like that. And it was almost like, well, I don’t understand that. My point of view, I’m like, I don’t get that, why don’t they, you know, are more accessible and better communication. And I could just go on and on. But I totally agree with what you’re saying. If it’s, it’s pretty obvious, if you pay them more, it sure helps them stick around.

Lewie Pugh  10:17

Yeah, it’s just paying better to treat them better, you know, driving, shouldn’t be treated like an expendable commodity. I don’t know. It blows my mind that we’ve, since deregulation, just flourished with this model of churn ever more profitable than retention, and I don’t understand it. Now, I wouldn’t argue the fact with some folks that probably find experienced drivers, the shortage problem a little bit inexperienced drivers, because so many people come in, and they, within a year, they’re gone. But you know, there’s a 400,000 new CDL issued every single solitary year. Real people go on, and they get out or they may just get out completely. Some take construction jobs or stuff like that, where they can get paid better, have a better living. But, you know, it’s a shame, because just unfortunately, it’s just the way it is in this industry. We don’t value the summit, people don’t value the drivers, they don’t value their time, they’re expendable commodities, like I said, and it’s just so frustrating. I just think that, you know, for one, we need more training, there’s lots of things we can invest in and make the highway safer. And that’s part of the problem with this whole shortage myth, in my opinion, too much regulation. Too many rules. Too much stuff out there now, trying to get past and push down on truck drivers, because we’re sharing this false narrative. And there’s been plenty of research, plenty of studies out there to show him by the Bureau of Labor, that there isn’t a driver shortage, but yet we constantly hear about it. In Washington, we constantly hear it on Capitol Hill, we constantly hear to do it. And we’re constantly as an association wider, pushing back against regulations and laws and rules that are being put upon us due to this false narrative and trucking which doesn’t help anybody.

Jeremy Kellett  12:11

So you think a lot of those regulations and stuff keeps people from staying and keeps truck drivers from staying in the industry, and keeps them from even wanting to get in it.

Lewie Pugh  12:22

I think it takes great drivers who are experienced, probably the best way to say it, and lets them get out. And probably new people get in and think about it, it’s like all this electronic stuff that we hit about the ABS and all these great latest and greatest things. You know, ELD is supposed to make the highway so much better and so much safer. You know, and they never, this has never come to fruition, because what we say here at Elijah, and I believe in myself, and I’m sure you probably do, too, the safest thing on a highway is you want to improve highway safety is a well trained driver. And that’s expensive. That’s a very expensive thing. But if we’re really serious about safety, that’s the thing, because my opinion, instead of passing more stringent rules and regulations on training drivers instead, or doing a BS, maybe some underride guards, may ELD, ease a speed limiters, possibly all these little things, we want to put them on trucks and put them on drivers. But instead of training the driver, and to me that’s backwards, there isn’t a trucker out there in my opinion, that would not embrace something, if it really helped. I think forward facing cameras is sort of an example of that. I mean, it doesn’t do much but record. But I know when the nurse first came out everybody was kind of against him. and myself included. And you know, because you truckers we don’t want to monitor we don’t want to be monitored. But you’ve kind of learned over the time that these can really save your bank and these for the forward facing not to drive but the forward facing. And they become a lot of people in industries really starting to embrace these things and stop. Because why wouldn’t you? I mean, I know if I were still trucking. I would have one on my truck because again, it can save your bacon real quick. Yeah, it

Jeremy Kellett  14:19

has us in a lot of instances. It’s been a fantastic tool. And our owner operators have accepted that graciously. You know, from all I can tell we don’t ever have any complaints about when everybody’s a little you know, in the beginning worried about him, I think like everybody was but now it’s saved so many it’s saved drivers jobs. It’s saved a lot of lawsuits by having those forward facing cameras that mean it’s been well worth the investment and everybody seems to appreciate that a whole lot. I just, you know, I wished there’s so many rules with a truck driver, so many laws. that they have to go by. It’s overwhelming to them. And just like you said, some of the older ones just get tired of it and want to get out. And you know, and I just wonder overall, how many people get out, you said 400,000 Come in, or CDs are issued every year, I want, you know, you just wonder how many get out in a year’s time, whether it’s retirement, whether it’s just getting out altogether, and taking another job. I’ve never, I’ve never thought about that and see those numbers, but you can’t expect the guy to go through. I mean, it’s hard to follow all the rules. I mean, there’s so many of them. But you know, it really, because in my mind, the education definitely needs to be on the truck driver. But it also needs to be on the four wheelers around there. To me, there’s not enough education on people driving a regular vehicle, down the interstate down the road to know, so they need more education on the truck driver side. And I just don’t think there’s enough training for people that don’t drive a truck, they need to know some of those things that you can’t pull in front of. He’s got to have so long a distance to stop. I mean, it’s just, you know, they have all these rules, I gotta go by me, there needs to be some training on that. And to Glue, what do you think?

Lewie Pugh  16:17

I don’t disagree. I mean, we bring that up, I bring that up a lot at state when I’m meeting with states and state do T’s. And in fact, here in Missouri, I brought we brought it up not too long ago, at our board meeting I the lady from moDOT here, and we’re talking about and that’s one thing, we talked about training, you know, people driving cars and kids and she was talking about how the Missouri budget is getting so tight, that they may have to end doing like driver training school when you’re gonna have to get your kids trade privately and stuff. And to me, that’s crazy. Because maybe instead of maybe that’s where we need to be sticking some of this money. And instead of worrying about putting money in, we spend millions, if not billions on enforcement, which I think we need. But we’ve seen that all these inspections and all this stuff over the last 1012 years have dumped all his money, and there’s so many more inspections and so much more stuff. I own trackers, but the numbers keep going in the wrong direction. So maybe it’s time money isn’t the problem, apparently. So maybe it’s time to divert some of that money into more training, whether for drivers or for wheel drivers both and I know that gets no cars do T of course doesn’t really have any oversight over car drivers. But states and lawmakers maybe instead of funding drivers training schools for truckers that we don’t really need to do maybe that’s sufficient we go there’s funds is funding for driver training for kids in high school like you said, learn more about Tom and Rancher nine defensive driving. I don’t even think they teach that anymore.

Jeremy Kellett  17:51

I don’t know what they teach anymore. But I can tell you it’s not taken real well. I’ve witnessed it every morning on the interstate out here on i 40. And there’s a lot of people that have been through no training whatsoever,

Lewie Pugh  18:04

or interstate 70 In any better trust me.

Jeremy Kellett  18:12

Oakley Trucking is a 100% Owner Operator company we specialize in Hopper bottom in dump and pneumatic drivers. We provide the trailer free of charge and you provide the truck. We have a large customer base that reaches the whole United States as well as parts of Canada. Our owner operators live anywhere from Texas to North Carolina to Pennsylvania to Wisconsin and everywhere in between and we get them home weekends. We take it seriously when you join Oakley trucking because we need you to be successful. Oakley offers great benefits and competitive mileage pay so you know that when your wheels are turning, you’re generating money no matter if you’re loaded or empty. We understand that you want to make a good living and that you make our living. We only take on independent contractors and to be honest with you we are very particularly on who we lease on. He must have a good driving record, good work history being a clean, dependable truck. So if you’re interested in Oakley trucking or just want more information, you can go to Oakley trucking.com Listen to our weekly podcast, the Oakley podcast and subscribe to our YouTube channel. What do you think that I mean, the next 10 years are looking like when it comes to truck drivers. And I mean, I know we say we have enough fill out there’s enough I mean from my perspective. What does Oakley trucking mean? Yes, we’re always looking for good owner operators but there doesn’t seem to be a shortage out of there. It’s a cycle that we go through to where sometimes, you know, you don’t need as many as you do now and then other times freight explodes and you’re trying to hire more than you think well, there’s not enough out there when really there is it’s just, you know, the freight I think dictates a lot of it to where when everybody’s busy and you got a lot of freight and you You know, in in the world and the industry in the USA here, then it keeps everybody busy. So you don’t have that then you get people looking for drivers and they think there’s a shortage. Well, then when the freight slows down, well, then you got, you know, plenty of truck drivers, not enough freight. I think maybe a lot of times they don’t take that, in fact, what do you think? Oh, I

Lewie Pugh  20:20

I think it happens every time. I mean, I think we’re going through that right now. I mean, I wish, you know, these are unprecedented times during COVID. You know, there’s nothing even compared but everybody freight was moving or there was a shortage of everything. Trucking was great. I mean, it was just I talked to some of my friends and all the stuff I was hauling. Before I came into the office. I’m thinking man, I wish I still had a truck. It is crazy the money they were getting. Or, you know, I think everybody hired everybody expanded. Everybody bought more trucks and hired more drivers. And now we’re in this big slump, you know, the hangover effect, I guess you could say, of the big COVID Boom. And now yeah, we know there’s gonna freight or markets are in the tank. I think from what I see with our guys the contract rates are doing well. Or okay, I should make these a better word. People on the spot market with the brokers are not doing very good at all. So she was in a new factory and his broker fraud that we’re seeing and stuff like, it’s going really rampant right now. That’s a very bad area. But yeah, nobody’s very busy. Because everybody, and admins, every time a trucking, I mean, you’ve been around here long enough. Every time we have a boom, we hire, buy more trucks, we get more equipment, we flood the market with equipment. And then the next thing you know, there’s not enough to haul and everybody’s starving to death.

Jeremy Kellett  21:47

I mean, that’s been going on forever. That’s the way it is exactly. Up and down. That’s just the world of trucking. That’s the way it is. Yeah. But

Lewie Pugh  21:56

as far as the future, I mean, there’s plenty of people coming into our business, I think the future what the future is, what holds is gonna be what kind of comes out of some out of Washington, there’s some bills out there as far as overtime pay, and stuff like that it could really address drivers, lifestyles and incomes, which is something that is number one to drivers. Year after year, we see, I think this parking issue that we’re dealing with, well, you know, if we can get some of that stuff across the finish line that’ll make lives better for trucking and make this again, a more a draw a job that more people are looking for, and wanting to do. Right now, trucking is just not that attractive. And understandably, I mean, if you can, I always tell people that asked me to get into it. If you can get through the first two years, and now have no accidents and behave yourself. You can pretty much go anywhere you can go to a private fleet or an LTL or somebody who pays really good and they’ll take care of you by your own truck, if you have the mind to in the business sense, as I always say the business sense because just because you can drive doesn’t mean you can own a truck good. It’s two different things. And I’m not trying to be rude, but that’s just the cold truth of the matter. And no matter what, if you can do that, but it’s just, I understand why people don’t get that two years or so in because it’s just everything stacked against them. And it’s not fun. And you know, I did the math one day on 50 $60,000 a year jobs, and 70 hours, I say $15 or something an hour, you can make that in McDonald’s across the street. So, you know, until we as an industry, or some of us in industry, I think haven’t really changed in mindset and have more of the Oakley mindset of we value a driver we value good people and understand a good safe driver is what pays our bills and makes us successful as a company. It’s not going to change. We’re just going to continue this churning effect of bringing new people in and and get no other people out. I mean, and it’s just sad, but I hope that we are we. I hope in the next few years, we change that attitude. And I hope we start thinking, you know about training more than the next best technology thing. You know, so much of these rules and regulations are gentleman shortage and technology. And again, technology is a great thing. We all love it. But it’s got to work. And so much as it’s tough. It just doesn’t work. It doesn’t work correctly. And there’s lots of questions. And when you start asking questions, they just sort of want to shut you down or tell you they’ll figure you’ll figure it out. And it’s kind of like California and carbs. I like being named Carlos and I started asking all these questions. I get told as well. By the time this is law, they’ll have it out there. Maybe they make a law.

Jeremy Kellett  24:57

Like it makes a lot of secrets. Yeah. You guys have always been, you know, really good to us here at Oakley for sure. And, of course, to all the drivers out there and helping them, you know, supporting them. And that’s the big thing. And to me, I mean, it starts at the top of Iglu even with a company, lock lock here. I mean, it starts with Bruce Oakley, Dennis Oakley. But anyway, for Justin Oakley, they know the truck driver makes their living. And that when that is at the top level, it filters down to everybody else, that this is how we’re going to take care of these truck drivers, because that’s what Mike is living and respecting them. And you can just see that. To me, it’s simple. You know why the company, I said this earlier, wouldn’t take care of them, you know, get the right ones in there. Not the wrong ones, there’s a lot of bad truck drivers out there, just like there’s a lot of bad trucking companies out there. You know, get the one that fits your program, and then take care of him, treat them right, pay your man, and the pay solves a lot of problems. If you can pay them the money to keep them there. Because most of them are looking for they’re looking to stay there, they’re not wanting to leave, they’re looking to stay at that company, you just got to take care of them and treat them right. And bad companies have made it rough for good companies, because they got to, I have to tell everybody to come in orientation, wipe your slate clean, I don’t care what’s happened to you in the past, we are not that company. Don’t compare us to that. Don’t bring that bad stuff over here to where you think it’s gonna happen to you because it’s not where I want you to wipe the slate clean and start fresh at Oakley. So we can we can it’s you know, we can tell you and be honest with you up front, we’re not trying to hide something. And I think if a lot of companies would just man try to take care of their drivers pay them well. That’s a key I think, is paid because it’s like you said all these hours they put in and time away from your house. Let’s see what I gotta pay. You know, somebody working in this office to stay gone for a week at a time taking a shower and truckstop can’t find a parking place parked on the side of the road hoping they don’t get a ticket, you know, making sure everything’s right. And they’re following all these rules, and you get home on a Friday night or Saturday morning. And then you gotta leave out Sunday night or Monday morning, let’s see what I got to pay you. It’s gonna be, it’s gonna be quite a bit, you’re gonna have to pay me to do the work for you to do that. I mean, honestly, because I’ve gone away. So I get to, I get to rant and rave in here. But it just means it means a lot to me that, you know, like till you’re passionate about it. And it’s really not that complicated. And you explain that. And I know you’re trying to explain it to a lot of politicians. It’s not that complicated, you know, if we would just do it right. So I appreciate what you’re doing. Now, it’s

Lewie Pugh  28:09

crazy that you said drivers’ time isn’t valued. I map the last time I testified on Capitol Hill, and T and I. That’s what I said. Can you imagine coming to work at eight o’clock in the morning, sitting around till 10: 30, 12, something like that. Then finally you get to go to work. And now you start working now you start getting paid. And then say you work for three or four hours, and then you gotta stop. But you have to sit there for another two or three hours not getting paid again before you can go back home because that’s what truckers go through. Unfortunate. I mean, surely your fleet big fleet company drivers are just gonna go through and I mean, that’s why I’m sure you’ve heard, we’re pushing this got trucking act, it’s to remove their overtime exemptions for employee drivers, because we think drivers should be valued. There’s no other skilled blue collar job out there that you don’t get paid overtime. So why are truckers exempt? And you know, I said this earlier, but actually he does a study every single year of drivers companies and the owner operator concerns every single solitary year. The number one thing for drivers is their pay. We know pay hasn’t kept up with trucking since the 70s. And you’re right it does make it hard for a good company wants to pay because you have these other companies over here that aren’t so they can do it cheaper and bid things cheaper or they do the lease purchase thing with a driver subs subsidizing the movement of their freight and my opinions always really doing and you have to compete with that kind of stuff. And it’s not fair. You know, we always hear people want a fair level playing field. Well, that’s far from fair. Unfortunately, it’s good if the companies that can do the right thing, but it is it’s a drag on our entire industry, our entire industry and is what I try to tell people rising tide lifts all boats, if people were the bad companies were forced to pay their drivers the right way that would make their bottom line have to come up. And which in turn is going to move your bottom line up right with it. The rising tide raises all boats.

Jeremy Kellett  30:14

There you go. Real quick for light to go. What’s on the top of your list right now? What do you get in the middle, of

Lewie Pugh  30:22

course, still fight and fight for parking and chug parking Safety Improvement Act. In fact, I’m going to DC next week. And we’re going to get parking. We’re talking about this overtime Bill exemption, or big thing, the restaurant Bell, as important as it’s out there for where they had the shippers, receivers have to allow drivers to use the restroom. Some of the big things that we’re going to be talking about,

Jeremy Kellett  30:47

can you even believe you’re saying that we’re having to have a bill from somebody or shipper receiver to let a truck driver use a battery

Lewie Pugh  30:56

That can fight. I’ve said that multiple times testifying at rural levels, I never thought I’d be, I say, in the nation’s capital, you know, we’re all these great things that have been decided. And I’m talking about getting permission for somebody to use the bathroom. the crazy world we live in nowadays body’s crazy world. But yeah, and then, of course, the other big thing we’re working on is trying to get some legislation to stop the speed limiter bill that’s out there, or the or the I should say, the speed limiter rulemaking, and FMCSA is trying to come out with.

Jeremy Kellett  31:34

So I hope you have some success at all that for sure. I know you fight hard for the truck drivers, and it’s very much appreciated on our end here at Oakley for sure. Hey, if somebody wants to join, oh, da, how do they do what’s the best way of doing it? what the benefits are? easiest

Lewie Pugh  31:52

and quickest way is going to Oh ida.com to our website, you can join right there real easy online. It’s our 50th year. I mean, all I can say is thanks to all the truckers that got us here because truckers and our members are the reason we’ve been around for 50 years and been able to keep fighting the fight. And so our appreciation is greatly to that. But oh ida.com I also like to plug fighting for truckers.com. If you want more information on some of the rules, regulations, or you want to reach out to your lawmakers, which is very important, I can never stress how important it is. The truckers need to have good relationships with the lawmakers and be reaching out and telling them how these things affect them. You can go to fighting for truckers.com Find out how your lawmakers find out about the bills and more information I’ve been talking about today. And you can message your lawmakers and stuff right there. And finally, if you’re not a technical person, you can call into 816-229-5791 and you know even if you’re a member, not a member, you heard somewhere and you like your resume you want to disagree about what you want to talk about it. Call me up I’m always willing to chat.

Jeremy Kellett  33:09

Yeah, appreciate your input today and coming on the Oakley podcast. You’ve always been a great guest. And you know, I know this is done three or four times now and it goes a long way. We’ve got a good audience, a good group of owner operators here that think take you to heart and appreciate all the work you do for truck drivers in general.

Lewie Pugh  33:32

Well, I appreciate you having me on. I love being on this show. And I know from my 20 plus years experience here guys always always had good luck and equipment and they’re always very professional. And I think you got a lot to be proud of there. And your owner operators and I appreciate them. And I appreciate all the truck drivers out there.

Jeremy Kellett  33:50

Appreciate you joining me. Thank you a lot, man. Thank you. Thanks, everybody for joining the Oakland podcast. Appreciate everything y’all do out there. And checking us out every week we put out some new episodes for you. We look forward to some more coming up in the future. Stay tuned. watch every episode you can of Oakley podcast. We’ll talk to you next week. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Oakley podcast: trucking, business, and family. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to rate or review the show on the podcast platform of your choice and share it with a friend. We love hearing from our audience, so if you’ve got a question, comment, or just want to say hello, head over to our website, theoakleypodcast.com, and click the “leave a comment” button. We’ll get you a response soon and may even share some of the best ones here on the show. We’ll be back with a fresh episode very soon. Thanks for listening.