172: Pros and Cons of New and Used Trucks

This week on the Oakley Podcast, host Jeremy Kellett welcomes Todd Venable and Adam Kampbell from MHC Kenworth to the show. During the episode, the group discusses all the ins and outs of purchasing a new or used truck. From prices of trucks to warranties and insurance, and everything in between. Todd and Adam break down the pros and cons of new vs. used and give good information to owner-operators about how to navigate the buying process. Don’t miss this episode! 

Key topics in today’s conversation include:

  • Introducing Todd and Adam (2:28)
  • The pros of buying a new truck (7:04)
  • Extended warranties on new trucks (8:31)
  • New Truck Adjustments and Break-In Periods (10:12)
  • Benefits of New Trucks: Less Downtime (10:41)
  • Customization and Specifying New Trucks (15:04)
  • Discussion on the 12% Charge for New Trucks (20:05)
  • New technology in trucks (21:02)
  • Availability of new trucks (27:39)
  • The current market and buyer’s market (30:22)
  • One benefit of buying a used truck: availability (31:39) 
  • Maintenance and extended warranties for used trucks (34:01)
  • The advantages of automatic transmission (40:38)
  • Negatives of buying a used truck (41:45)
  • The cycle of trading trucks (44:19)
  • Final thoughts and takeaways for buying new or used (51:02)

Oakley Trucking is a family-owned and operated trucking company headquartered in North Little Rock, Arkansas. For more information, check out our show website: podcast.bruceoakley.com.


Adam Kampbell  00:12

Whatever suits the person, you know, everybody’s different. Everybody has a different past and in different circumstances. So, you know, it might make sense for somebody to buy us versus may not make sense for somebody to buy new versus used.

Jeremy Kellett  00:27

I can’t wait to see all the comments.

Adam Kampbell  00:29

Yeah, we want to help everybody out.

Jeremy Kellett  00:31

Welcome to the Oakley podcast, trucking, business, and family. This show is brought to you by Oakley Trucking, headquartered in North Little Rock, Arkansas. The purpose of this podcast is to communicate with Oakley owner-operators and their families by giving them up-to-date information concerning Oakley Trucking and the trucking industry. From business advice to safety updates to success stories. Also to give an inside to outside truck drivers that might be interested in joining the Oakley family. Hi, this is Jeremy kellett director recruiting here at Oakley trucking and I’m your host for this podcast. This is the Oakley podcast, trucking business and family and appreciate all you guys who listen to this every Wednesday as we bring you some new information. Try to bring you some good stuff to make good decisions, be a successful owner operator here at Oakley trucking and also share things that you know with your families too. So we all try to just communicate the best we can and give you some good stuff. And in this episode. I’ve actually got two guys sitting down with me. Todd Venable, the general manager, might see Kenworth here in Little Rock. And I got Adam Kampbell truck salesman here at MHC Kenworth and Little Rock and you know, we got to talk about and I’ve been asked this from you guys from our listeners a lot is the new versus buying new trucks versus buying used trucks and some of the pros and the cons. And we’re gonna get the information right from them. I mean, they deal with it every day, sell new trucks, so you stroke and I think can give us a lot of information to help you if you’re just trying to decide what’s best for me. If it’s your first truck coming out of the gate, maybe it is new, better than used. You know, in we’ll talk about all the details in between, but also if you’re an owner operator, and, and you’ve had several trucks already, this might be something that really give you some good information on, you know, why should I buy a new one maybe so, just gonna get a little more detail. We’re gonna talk a little bit about technology. I’ve got a couple of questions that I’ve written down on it and tell them about it’s gonna try to curve a little bit so a little bit of everything.

Arrow Truck Sales Commercial  02:36

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Jeremy Kellett  03:06

Let us just crank right up into it here and get started. So we can get this ball going because I got a feeling it’s gonna take a little while. So hey, guys, I appreciate you joining me here on Oakley podcast. Adam Campbell Todd Venable.

Todd Venable  03:18

Thanks for having us.

Jeremy Kellett  03:19

You guys were up in it before we were talking about a while ago and you’ve done it? This is your third. This is your second, maybe sitting down with us. And it doesn’t seem like it. It’s been. I can’t believe we’re doing it this long. We were talking about how one of the first ones Todd came over and did it. It was back in the old office. wood paneling. Right? It was just audio only. Yeah, it’s been so long ago. We couldn’t remember what we talked about. Yeah. Yeah. But you listeners can go back and check it out. Because it was one of the early ones right?

Todd Venable  03:48

I think one of them was episode 69. I can’t remember if that was the second one or the or the first one.

Jeremy Kellett  03:54

I like the second one. But

Adam Kampbell  03:55

yeah, you were early on. Okay,

Jeremy Kellett  03:57

I reached out to my friends to get this thing going. Let’s get something going on. Well, you’re doing good.

Todd Venable  04:03

That’s for sure.

Jeremy Kellett  04:04

I appreciate you guys, y’all. You know, side note might see Kenworth and Oakley have, you know, known each other, each other had dealt with each other for up to 18 years nowadays, ever since before I got here, right? Which was back in 94. So we were doing business before then. And it’s great that we’re able to establish that relationship for all these years. And it’s because you guys are the same as you. You have the same purpose in mind of making these owner operators you know, more successful, right and being better. So it’s a big part of our business. Yeah, yeah. So give us a little bit of history on the item real quick.

Adam Kampbell  04:51

So I’ve been selling trucks since right around 2016. So before that, I was on the part sales side Uh, and before that I worked the parts counter, and then the parts counter back in the shop. So basically my whole adult life I’ve been involved on the dealership side with commercial trucks at a dealership. So how long have you been with NYC? Um, about eight years total.

Jeremy Kellett  05:19

Nice about Utah.

Todd Venable  05:21

So I’m in my 30th year. Awesome. Congratulations. Yeah, started in 93 selling trucks in Springdale, Arkansas. Wow. So cron traveled around my first four years and landed in Little Rock in 96. The swarm of kids grew up we consider at home beloved here. So here to stay mainly, kind of truck sales parts manager at one time being the branch manager since 98. So

Jeremy Kellett  05:50

Yeah, I have had a good run so far. HC is you got a MIT tattoo.

Todd Venable  05:55

I do. I do. That’s right.

Jeremy Kellett  06:00

That’s what it is. When you’ve been there. 30 years, you’ve done something that’s awesome. Congratulations. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. This new versus used is I think something that’s not talked about enough. I think every truck driver out there has their, um, new only. I’m used to only type deals. You know, that’s what they are set on. But I think talking to you guys, you guys can give us, you know, a little more detail on the pros and the cons of some of this stuff so far. So start with buying a new truck. Let’s start with the pros. What are some of the pros you want to start?

Todd Venable  06:38

Yeah, I’ll start. So one of the obvious things is you’re getting a new truck, so you’re not going to have to purchase tires, your maintenance cost is going to be lower for the first couple of years that you own the trucks. So, you know, just the fact that you can get that thing on the road. And understand that as you’re making your paycheck. It can go in your pocket and not go against maintenance costs. So you’re gonna save some money on maintenance costs, just purely because everything’s new on the truck.

Jeremy Kellett  07:10

So to

Adam Kampbell  07:12

Yep, you know, just to play off that one more little thing. You know, everybody that buys a new pickup truck, new car, new work truck is new. I mean, there’s some pride in that you’re the first person that’s owned it. And like he said, I mean, it’s ready to go to work. But the second pro I would, I would say, is going to be the manufacturer’s warranty. So Kenworth, Peterbilt, whatever brand it is, you’re going to get a warranty from that manufacturer that is going to be, you know, the best warranty that you can get. Typically, what is a standard out the door warranty on a new truck is going to be one year on the manufacturer’s warranty 12 months 100,000 miles after that you’ve got the 24 month engine and after treatment, and that’s pretty much standard. And then you’ve got your component warranties. A lot of the transmissions nowadays are five years 750,000 on the automated manuals. Your axles are typically going to be five years you know so everything is gonna have a warranty on it from the get go. And then of course we have extended warranties from the manufacturer as well whether it be Kenworth Cummins pack our engine

Jeremy Kellett  08:31

Trino new truck and have a warranty for

Adam Kampbell  08:34

how long if I bought 600,000 Miles is about

Todd Venable  08:38

Yeah, that’s that’s about the range that they want to go out to in terms of miles but like Adam was saying, you know, the warranties we can talk about that for a whole and we have a and we have but you know you talk about the one year warranty well that’s kind of we talked about in terms of kind of the bumper to bumper warranty Okay, and then every other component on that truck has its own warranty that comes along with it so alternator like Adam Adam was saying engines have the the the two year transmissions, rear ends alternator has a warranty of its own on all the way on down the line, cab structure everything so you know, you’re already covered with warranty when you first buy the truck, so you know not only do you have, you know your maintenance costs low on the tires and and you know, the windshield doesn’t need to be replaced, etc. But you’ve already got some baked in warranties that you don’t have to purchase. And if you do want to purchase them. There’s some extended versions of every single one of those warranties that I just focus are

Adam Kampbell  09:39

and they’re usually comparable to, you know, an aftermarket warranty in the US. They’re actually cheaper. And they typically cover more new drones right? And the 12 month base warranty like he said that we can kind of consider a bumper to bumper. You know, that’s basically everything on that truck minus where items so not gonna be tired, not gonna be breaks, you know, filters, old changes, stuff like that but you know, electrical wiring harnesses, you know, things of that nature, it’s all included in that, as well as there’s an adjustment period a lot of people don’t know about. So I think it’s 30,000 miles, the first 30,000 miles, you got an adjustment period for whether it be alignments, or vibrations, you know, rattles inside the cab we’ve had, you know, unfortunately, we’ve had rattles, and, you know, we just have to address them and fix them. And that’s no cost to the customer for that first little, basically like a break in period. And a lot of people don’t realize that

Jeremy Kellett  10:41

there because you’re gonna find it right. You’re there, right? That’s for sure. Yeah. What else? new truck pros.

Todd Venable  10:49

Well, this goes along with what we were just talking about, but less downtime. So certainly everybody can understand that when we talk about the warranties, new tires, etc. So you’re gonna have less downtime. Yeah. So I don’t know what more we can add to that, but it’s just going to be less downtime. Yeah, yeah. Like so. To me. That’s,

Adam Kampbell  11:07

That’s good. Modern features. Yeah, technology, put a slash technology there, right, fuel efficiencies could fall into that modern features as well. So every few years, you know, all the manufacturers. So to update the design, Kenworth came out with a new one a couple of years ago that we call the next gen for the T 680. You know, that is an updated design, it is more fuel efficient, more modern, along with the interior, you know, they’ve upgraded to a digital dash, just some more creature comforts, you know, just when you buy new, you get the newest and latest,

Jeremy Kellett  11:43

I mean, the

Todd Venable  11:44

LED lights, every manufacturer has those now that they’re better visibility, they last longer. So you’re, you know, it’s more cost effective. And so just like Adam said, you know, really, truly just like your automobiles you see today, some of these features you see, kind of blow your mind, you know, we got the big screens in them now. You know, everything’s digital, you know, so a lot of the modern features, and that’s a benefit.

Jeremy Kellett  12:12

One thing we didn’t put on our list is the smile.

Adam Kampbell  12:15

Yeah, that’s right off the beginning. There has never been anyone else in that truck. But

Jeremy Kellett  12:22

that no smiles. Yeah. Nobody else smells there. Yeah, that’s good to put the first Oh, yeah, that’s pretty good. You also put it on your list financing longer terms. Better, right, typically speaking that just a minute.

Todd Venable  12:38

So, you know, any finance company is going to look at a new piece of equipment as something that they can take a longer risk on. Right, because of some of the reasons we’ve just talked about the warranties on them, the maintenance, the less downtime. So you know, when you’re buying a new truck, typically, you can finance them sometimes as far out as 72 months, sometimes farther than that. And so what that will allow is somebody to get in the truck with the lower down payment, or I should say, I’m sorry, I’m down payment, lower monthly payment. Gotcha. Because they’re stretching the terms out. Yeah. So, so many times the terms are better and in aspect of, you know, how much am I going to pay a month for the

Jeremy Kellett  13:21

truck? Is that something to add a little side note here? Is that something the finance companies have adjusted because of the increasing price of new drugs?

Todd Venable  13:30

I don’t think so. Yeah. Yeah. You know, finance companies.

Jeremy Kellett  13:34

Like it used to be 60 months ago. Yeah,

Todd Venable  13:37

standard. Yeah. So they’re in the business to finance equipment. And as equipment goes up, they’ve got to figure out how they chase that as well. So yeah, that that that is certainly followed the price of the truck, another

Adam Kampbell  13:53

Maybe a piece of advice that could go into that along with you know, plays in with the warranty. So what I try to advise people when they’re talking about financing a truck, brand new, especially if they’re gonna go 72 months, I would do the warranty to match you know, are as close well, you mean must go timeframe. Okay, mileage, how many miles a year you got to run on that truck. And you want to, if they only plan to keep the truck for five years, then a five year warranty should be fine. But you want to have that warranty on that truck as long as you plan to keep it and so if they want to keep it for seven years and finance it for six years and finance it for six years, then I would advise the warranty to match that way. They’ve got a peace of mind the whole time they’re making that payment and not having to make a repair cost and payment. This

Jeremy Kellett  14:47

this next one might be your most important. Where a guy gets to pick what he wants. He gets to spec out a truck. I mean, that’s probably one of the number one reasons they buy new cars. As I get my truck, get what I want when you think.

Adam Kampbell  15:04

And a lot of guys, if they’ve never sat down with the salesman and looked at all the options and different ways to configure a truck, actually it can almost confuse the guy sometimes, but there’s so many options that you can do on these trucks. I mean, you can make it exactly what you want. And that is a very important thing to some people. We’ve done some for some Oakley guys out of a little rock example.

Jeremy Kellett  15:31

Give me an example of something they can pick that’s, you know, it, you wouldn’t think so. i wouldn’t think that good.

Todd Venable  15:39

Well, I, you know, engine transmission. Those are some of the obvious things that were in ratio. That’s probably the big thing. Yeah, yeah.

Adam Kampbell  15:48

Interior packages. So now that’s what I’m thinking. For instance, now the T 680. Used to the only way you could get up back wall storage on that truck was at a Mid Roof. Well, now it’s available in high rise as well. So you know, just saying a guy goes and looks at a stock truck at a Kenworth dealership pretty much anywhere in the country, they’re going to be double bunk, so he doesn’t want to double bunk. Well, you can order that truck as a single bunk and have this back wall storage that has cabinets and shelving and it’s really, really a nice feature. You’re not gonna find that in most stock trucks, as most stock trucks are gonna be built with a double box. You know, refrigerators, we would put them in pretty much most of them nowadays. But you’ve got inverter options from the factory, APU option from the factory with the S bar heaters, you know, you’re not gonna see that and a lot of stock trucks. You can do aluminum air tanks, you can do aluminum, fifth, will saddles, a couple things like that, that you can lower the weight of the truck. different thicknesses of axle housings, really, disc brake versus drum. So I mean, you could really dial in and get exactly well,

Jeremy Kellett  16:59

there’s some guys out there licking their chops out and those gear he is going oh, yeah, that’s my,

Adam Kampbell  17:07

It’s fun to do. Yeah, I bet it either. Yeah, we usually are, I usually will try to start with a spec of a truck. And then we’ll print it out. And we’ll look at it together. And we’ll go through, and what do you not like about this? Or what do you want on this? And we’ll start changing things. And sometimes you may change it up 10 times before guys are happy. But, you know, it’s a process. But it’s a fun process. So yes,

Jeremy Kellett  17:35

yeah. Anytime you get to spec out what you want, I mean, it’s custom to you right down

Adam Kampbell  17:39

to the paint, you want. You want the frame painted one color and the truck another vice versa, you know, I mean, you can make it, whatever you want.

Jeremy Kellett  17:48

Last one on our list for new truck pros. Nationwide dealer support, right? Pretty important.

Todd Venable  17:54

Yeah. So you know, no matter what brand, the truck that you buy, you’ve got a dealer network out there. And so and then it even compounds on that depending on what engine you have in the truck. So we sell Cummins engines as well as pack our brand of engine. So you know, you can not only take your truck to the Kenworth dealer to get it worked on. But you can take it to a Peterbilt dealer and any Cummins dealer in terms of the engine. So you know that that that is an advantage, I think to buying a new truck is just the fact that you have so many outlets from coast to coast of where you can take that truck to get it worked on in the warranty period of time and not have to worry about, you know, not being able to take advantage of the warranty.

Jeremy Kellett  18:41

Okay. All right, Jeff sold me pretty well that a new truck is pretty convincing to order a new truck. I got it. Let’s talk about the negatives because we’re here to give honesty to everybody. So what’s some of the negatives the cons neutral cons,

Adam Kampbell  18:56

the biggest one? And it’s pretty obvious. They cost more money. Yeah. So you asked about or you were saying something about a first time guy, you know, that’s probably the biggest con to a new truck. First time truck buyer. You know, they’re trying to start out, it’s just a lot more money.

Jeremy Kellett  19:15

Yeah, yeah. And the process. I mean, it just steadily stayed up there. Since I’ve gotten up high. It seemed like they’d just stayed up there and had a big separation. Right, which we’ll get to later on the difference between new and new So price is one while some other stuff

Todd Venable  19:34

well, along with the price on a new truck, you’ve got to pay federal excise tax FET and so that’s currently at 12% So every new truck whenever you you drive it off the lot, you’re gonna lose that 12% Because you had to pay 12 per se that

Jeremy Kellett  19:51

sales price

Adam Kampbell  19:52

was right. To the federal government. Wow. Yeah. So no way around that.

Jeremy Kellett  19:58

I mean, he had guys try to figure right away, right? No, I’ve never. That’s crazy. Yeah, yeah. So does that 12% change?

Todd Venable  20:10

So it has an in my time during my, my, it’s always been, it’s always been 12% Okay, but it’s subject to change. So that’s why I say currently, you know,

Adam Kampbell  20:21

I guess the only way around that is, if it’s a non CDL required drug, or actually, if it’s less than 33,000 GW, so that’s the line. So obviously, any Oakley truck is gonna be 33,000 GW and over. So it’ll all have FET on it,

Todd Venable  20:37

but are lighter duty trucks or medium duty trucks that are not FET taxable.

Jeremy Kellett  20:43

Okay. Tough. That’s a tough pill to swallow right there. What else did you get on the new truck cones?

Adam Kampbell  20:50

So the uncertainty of new technology. So like we were saying earlier, comes out with new stuff all the time? Well, most of the time, it’s a good thing. But there are issues here and there. One of the biggest ones that probably stands out to everyone is emissions. So, every so often, every few years, there’s a new EPA standard that engine manufacturers have to meet. So right now, we’re currently under the epa 21. Well, there’s fixing to be at epa 24. So there’ll be new emissions on those trucks. So what, you know, what could come with that? You know, we don’t know yet. So hopefully, it’s, you know, hopefully it goes smoothly. But if you remember back, you know, back. Yeah. A while. Yeah, there was some big problems when they first introduced

Jeremy Kellett  21:38

def and so they’re making some changes to the start. And when 24 When they’re building 24 truck,

Adam Kampbell  21:44

they’ll be I had, they’ll actually be classified as 25 year models, but they build in the 24. calendar year.

Jeremy Kellett  21:52

That was actually one of my questions at the end was what changes are coming to new trucks? Well, then we can dive back into I mean, this goes Go ahead. I mean, I think that’s even though I get a little sidetracked. But yeah, on neutral at cons, but that, you know, that is a con, it goes weird if we don’t know what those changes are gonna be, right? Well,

Todd Venable  22:14

So really, it’s just as simple as this, that keeps lowering the NOx levels that are allowed. And so they keep narrowing that box and making it smaller and smaller. And when I say they, the government and so the engine companies have to follow that mandate in order to have approved

Jeremy Kellett  22:33

so explain that. They keep lowering the NOx. Okay, so somebody to Annabelle.

Adam Kampbell  22:38

Alright, so that that’s clearly just the nitrogen oxide level of the exhaust.

Todd Venable  22:43

Yeah. So what’s coming out of the pipe? What’s coming out of the pipe? How clean? Is it? Just keep

Jeremy Kellett  22:47

trying to get it cleaner

Adam Kampbell  22:48

and cleaner and dry and clean? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, eventually, you know, this is way down the line. But engine manufacturers talked about it already, eventually. I think the goal is 2050. zero emissions? I don’t, I don’t know how that’s achievable. But electric. No, there’s other ways that they’re working on, they won’t be just electric. But that is the ultimate goal is zero emissions out of these engines,

Jeremy Kellett  23:16

then it’s not an engine. That’s right.

Adam Kampbell  23:20

And it is out of our control. You know, that the engine manufacturers, they have to meet the regulations, they cannot produce the engines in the United States. Yeah, so there’s

Todd Venable  23:31

already hydrogen being tested. And they’re finding some success with that. Cummins is even talking about a new platform of engines that are going back to gasoline, the smaller truck and smaller truck engines. And so there’s combinations between electric and diesel and how much that will be mission wise. So I think, you know, everybody’s got a different platform that they’re trying to explore to see what works the best. You know, we’ve had natural gas engines out for some time now, you know, and there’s challenges with every one out and that’s the whole whole thing. There’s nothing that fits into the same success or capabilities of what a diesel engine can do right now, when it comes to how far they can go range to how easily it is to fuel your truck and how many fuel stops there are and you can just go on and on with that. So if you talk about electricity, are you talking about even natural gas? It’s been around for a while, you know, the big thing there is how far can the truck go? If so, you’re limited on the range and how many fuel stops are there in between here and where you’re going? Yeah, so there’s a lot of challenges that are going to have to be met. I don’t proclaim to be an expert on any of it. But that’s just the clearly the things that are going to be the obstacle.

Jeremy Kellett  24:53

I had a gown on the podcast. Earlier this year I was from Washington, DC. And that’s exactly what we were talking about was the infrastructure on you know, go to electric well there’s no place to write no place to recharge anywhere you know many other places that are getting it but that was a good episode for people to go back and I don’t know which one it was exactly, but

Adam Kampbell  25:16

but just the last thing I’d say on that for everybody listening, the diesel, combustible engine is not going anywhere, anytime soon. So, it’s gonna be around now they’re just gonna keep they’re gonna keep adding to the filter the exhaust I mean, that’s the goal.

Jeremy Kellett  25:36

Oakley Trucking is a 100% Owner Operator company. We specialize in Hopper, bottom and dump and pneumatic drivers. We provide the trailer free of charge and you provide the truck. We have a large customer base that reaches the whole United States as well as parts of Canada. Our owner operators live anywhere from Texas to North Carolina to Pennsylvania to Wisconsin and everywhere in between and we get them home weekends. We take it seriously when you join Oakley trucking because we need you to be successful. Oakley offers great benefits and competitive mileage pay so you know that when your wheels are turning, you’re generating money no matter if you’re loaded or empty. We understand that you want to make a good living and that you make our living. We only take on independent contractors and to be honest with you, we are very particular on who we lease on. You must have a good driving record, good work history, and a clean, dependable truck. So if you’re interested in Oakley trucking or just want some more information, you can go to Oakley trucking.com. Listen to our weekly podcast, the Oakley podcast and subscribe to our YouTube channel. New truck cones. Okay, we just discussed the price, federal excise tax uncertainty of this new technology. Now the next one is available. Right. So I like that a little bit.

Todd Venable  26:51

So here in the last few years COVID manufacturers have had some constraints in terms of the suppliers being able to plan the parts to build the trucks. So Kenworth has mandated a limitation on how many trucks each dealer group can get. So we’re on what’s called an allocation. And so that limits the number of trucks that I can sell to my customers. And so when they can’t build as many trucks, then there’s less trucks available to be able to offer. So when there’s less supply, there’s more demand. price goes up,

Adam Kampbell  27:29

which is good news to that. So as far as availability goes, as of right now, we’re

Jeremy Kellett  27:34

on cones right now, this is all I’m just kidding. Yeah.

Adam Kampbell  27:39

I mean, the availability is an issue that is a con but it has gotten better in recent months, as far as you know, availability of new trucks, there are trucks on the ground that are available. Now, as of, you know, a year ago, you wouldn’t find one. I mean, if you didn’t have your name, on a list, an order placed, you are not getting a new truck. So they have gotten better. So

Jeremy Kellett  28:04

Now you’ve got stock trucks Correct. That is available, pretty good. But if I was going to order a truck from you today, how long was it gonna take me to

Adam Kampbell  28:15

get out as far as that goes? You know, we’d have about three months is what we’re looking at, you’d be at, oh, four months. So probably around. February, the end of January, if you were to sit down with me and we built a truck, and you were ready to go, we could have a truck by February of next year.

Jeremy Kellett  28:35

But you got nice ones on the lot that are right. Let’s get more availability, new truck cones financing.

Todd Venable  28:44

So anytime you’re talking about a higher price piece of equipment, you’re gonna have a higher down payment. And so the price to pay poker goes up when you’re talking about a new truck. So

Jeremy Kellett  28:52

yeah, pretty simple. Yeah. cost more. You gotta have more money. Yeah. And probably better history, better credit. Right? Yeah, basically, I would think so. I added one here on a new truck. QCon that’s not on your list. But I thought about insurance rates. If somebody’s considering buying a product price, that makes sense. There’s gonna be it’s gonna your insurance is gonna be higher because you’re, you’re charging more.

Adam Kampbell  29:18

Yeah, you’re covering more money? Yeah. Yeah, it makes perfect sense.

Jeremy Kellett  29:22

Yeah. So we got to kind of figure that in a lot of people. You know, don’t figure in insurance. I just want the truck. Yeah, go buy the truck. And then also their insurance payment is like, you know, hi. And they’re like, Well, that’s what you get. Okay, new. We covered the news pretty well. I think it was really good. Yes. Sorry, it took me a little longer to get through it. But that’s alright. Let’s talk about truck pros. So I’m interested in buying a used truck. What are the pros of buying a used truck?

Adam Kampbell  29:54

All right, so first one kind of like the new price. So what you’re gonna get is As you know, the depreciation on that truck, the first hit has already been taken, which I think might be on another spot. So that’s all. But yeah, you know that FET we’re talking about? It’s already been taken. So lower price, that’s probably the biggest factor as a pro for a used truck.

Jeremy Kellett  30:22

Yeah. And that goes into Todd, your last one here at the current market. So the the actual price of US trucks are coming down or

Todd Venable  30:33

Yes, yeah. So we’ve kind of hope they’ve hit bottom. But you know, we have just come off record values, if you will, that’s how you want to state it. We have used equipment, guys that were selling trucks, we’re getting more than what they paid for them two years ago, we could trade for anything and make money on him. I mean, it was just a really wild, wild west market, you know, and so that everybody knew that was going to level out, come down, get back to normal. So we probably have had a market adjustment that’s a little bit farther than normal right now. But we are, it’s low now. And so it’s a buyers market. And just in terms of the entry level price of vehicles, it’s as low as it’s been in years.

Jeremy Kellett  31:25

And you wouldn’t think that I guess, but, I mean, you know, there being such a big gap between new and used if, if use is coming down, but you got a surplus of used trucks. I mean, out there, is there a

Adam Kampbell  31:37

The next point is the wide variety and selection. Okay, yeah, we have tons of trucks right now. Used? Yeah, there’s a, just a vast, you know, these?

Jeremy Kellett  31:52

Are these trucks, they use trucks, are they more, they got more miles on them than the used trucks you had five years ago, same Docker, is that they are still getting rid of because in my mind, I’m thinking I will, they kept their trucks longer. So now they’ve probably got 600,000 miles on them, instead of the ones we used to buy or, or refer guys to you to buy with 300,000 on it, we still have, you still have. So that’s good. That’s good.

Todd Venable  32:18

And so a lot of the lot of the big fleets, you know, they’re gonna stick to a trade cycle that’s based on miles, okay. And their whole program is based on, you know, that trade cycle, and trying to stay within that. So, you know, it makes these a pretty big company. So, you know, we have a lot of big fleets that we sell to, and they’ve continued to trade the trucks on a normal trade cycle. So we’re still seeing a lot of the trucks that are, you know, high threes, low fours on miles. And they continued to trade the trucks during the COVID period, if you will. So, yeah, we’ve maintained a really nice level of inventory.

Jeremy Kellett  32:59

So that’s good. Um, yeah, you know, to have lower prices going down and wider variety. I mean, now, and now you’re financing. That’s one of the pros of financing a used truck, I

Adam Kampbell  33:11

guess, and right. So it’s kind of like the new with a higher down payment, typically used as a lower down payment, just because the overall financed amount, you know, you’re first time buyers, we’ve said this before on previous shows, but, you know, a rule of thumb that that’s been this way for a long time is about 20%, down just for first time buyers. So 20% of a $60,000 truck is a whole lot less than 20% of $190,000. A truck. Yeah, that’s what we actually tell him. When we talk to him and a recruiting partner, they

Jeremy Kellett  33:46

ask us a lot of times we say, well, rule of thumb is 20%. You know, if you don’t have 20, then you better keep saving. It’s pretty well stayed that way. I mean, yeah. What else are your pros if you want to buy a used truck,

Adam Kampbell  34:01

the next one’s maintenance. So you’re more or more options as far as where you can take a used truck. So if your truck is not under a manufacturer’s warranty, and you want to use a local shop to do whatever maintenance needs to be done, well, then you can do that. Where if it’s a brand new truck and you’re having something done, and you take it somewhere, there’s not a Kenworth dealer or Peterbilt dealer lucky said for a pack or Cummins or something like that. You’re going to end up paying for that repair yourself. So I want to use Trump in kind of take it wherever you’d like.

Jeremy Kellett  34:34

Yeah, yeah. Because a lot of guys want to use their mechanic. Right? That’s right. And I don’t blame them. No, I don’t either. They feel good about it. And we use that but you can do that when you get to use a truck. That’s right. But what about this, this last one here has extended warranties available?

Adam Kampbell  34:50

So the biggest thing about the extended warranties on us is yes, there’s a lot of them available than the ones we sell. There are still very good warranties and the biggest pointer, I would say to anybody that purchases one of those warranties is anywhere you go to get a repair done on that truck, you should ask them up front. You guys honor this warranty, and they should know whether they do or not. But there’s a lot of places, almost any dealership in the country does say premium 2000. I mean, that’s probably the most popular warranty. And there’s a lot of smaller shops out there that are in premiums, you know, network for repair facilities. But I would definitely ask, before you take your truck under a used truck warranty somewhere if they honor it or not really need

Jeremy Kellett  35:41

to know that. Okay, just a refresher. Here I got Todd Venable and Adam Campbell with MHC LoRa Rockset. And then with me, we were talking pros and cons of new drugs, pros and cons of using drugs. We’re down to the last use truck cons, we just finished up with the pros of buying a used truck, a lot of good things in there, you know, including the price and the financing. Right? It seemed like a price, right? And that was the best part of that one, because it is a buyers market. But what are some of the negatives that somebody needs to think about? If they’re if they’re looking at buying or, you know, typically, I had them a lot of guys, you know, come to Oakley, a lot of accompany drivers, they’re getting in their first truck, they’re nervous as a cat, they’ll know what to expect, they’ve never bought a truck before. You know, I think using trucks is a smart way to go. But there are some negatives to buying a used truck. What’s some of those?

Adam Kampbell  36:37

So the first one that we kind of listed is you’re you’re limited to a truck that’s already built, it’s already on the ground. So you’re not going to be able to change a lot of things about that truck, you know, engine transmission, rear axle ratios, you know, things of that nature, the way the interiors set up, you can add some things on your own if you want, but you’re you’re buying what’s already there. So you’re not gonna be able to really tailor fit to you exactly.

Jeremy Kellett  37:07

Well, you get what you got minutes, what you

Todd Venable  37:11

can add, and there is a variety. So we already stated that as a pro, but like he had mentioned, when you sit down and spec a new truck, man, you get to pick every single item and how you want that truck and all the way down through every nut and bolt on the truck just about Yeah. And that’s where you’re limited on your specs based on what’s on the lot what you have, because the trucks are already built. So

Jeremy Kellett  37:36

He used to sell new trucks didn’t.

Adam Kampbell  37:40

Also, let me add to that. So on the use cones, you know, this has happened several times, I’m sure. But these transmissions nowadays, they’re much more advanced, electronically, technology wise. And with Oakley, especially PTOs for buying a truck, and it’s a used truck, you need to really dive in on an automatic to make sure that it is one that you can run the PTO on. Because the last thing I want to do as a salesman is sell a guy truck that he can’t use for what he’s intending to buy for, or find out that it’s going to cost him a whole lot more money to make it work. And that is not any salesman’s intention, I hope but it can happen. Oh, yeah, I know it has happened. So you know, that’s another big con. That’s not necessarily listed out individually. But yeah, I mean, if a guy’s going to Hopper, it’s fine. But if he ever wants to move to another division one day, you know, it could

Jeremy Kellett  38:45

be an issue limiting. Yeah, we’ve, we’ve been fighting that that’s a whole nother subject. We’ve been fighting those automatics. And most of them are work. There’s just a few. And then some of them just have to have some things added to it or the, you know, speaking terms. I don’t know what the hip lets the motor know that it’s getting a PTO or has been programmed, right. Yeah. So there’s ways to do it. But there’s some out there that ain’t happening. Yeah, we’re not getting a big deal. Um,

Adam Kampbell  39:15

and so I mean, a good rule of thumb, just to let everybody know if it’s a manual transmission, I mean, you’re not going to have that issue. Yeah. But a lot of guys don’t have the manual CDL I guess. Well, which

Jeremy Kellett  39:29

is okay, one of my questions. Are all truck manufacturers going to automatics?

Todd Venable  39:35

So all the truck manufacturers already have an automatic option. Right. And so,

Jeremy Kellett  39:41

Are they gradually weeding out manuals? Well, I

Todd Venable  39:45

don’t think it’s a matter of weeding them out. I think the buying public is well who’s waiting for it out. So, you know, with the driver shortages and the challenges that every company has with hiring drivers. Man that you know, so you’re saying the demand is going away. Now there’s certain applications vocational, a standard transmission still more prevalent, right? The hood drugs, the drugs, you know. But when it comes to, you know, your fuel efficient those trucks I’ve had, I’ve had companies call and tell me that, hey, you know, our first automatic this driver was not going to drive it, convinced him to take it on a trip, came back and said he’ll never get into manual again, you know. So it’s a better product than it used to be. So it’s very reliable. It’s easy to dry, as a company standpoint or an over owner operator standpoint, puts more money in your pocket, because it’ll get better fuel mileage, that’s proven. And so there’s too many advantages to it.

Jeremy Kellett  40:53

Well, and they’re also putting people through CDL schools that that’s all they are allowed to drive their license, I have a restricted license or have automatic only on it, because I’ve never driven a standard. So that’s right. I mean, that and I know y’all heard the joke about the guy that stole the car out of that neighborhood. And he found it the next morning parked at the stop sign and doors open because I had a manual transmission and he couldn’t drive it. Yeah, yeah. You know, okay, well, you know, I think we got a couple more of their own news truck cons, what are some negatives to buying a used truck.

Todd Venable  41:33

Unknown history of the truck. You know, typically whenever we acquire a truck, whether it’s via trade, or we purchase it, we try to find out everything we can about it, in order to know what kind of condition it’s in. But there’s certain things that you’re just not going to find out, you know, or no. And so, there’s a little bit of that, where, you know, you try to take it through a used truck inspection, and, you know, look at all that, but there’s not everything that you’re going to catch. So just the fact that you’re buying something that’s got, you know, a certain amount of miles on it. That’s a few years old, and you just really don’t know where, what and why those trucks have been used. And so you really just don’t know what you’re getting. And in some aspects, yeah.

Adam Kampbell  42:20

You know, the other part of it, I guess, is the downtime on a used truck it plays into Yes, oh,

Jeremy Kellett  42:27

you put that on there, that downtime might be more, right. I guess it’s a used truck. So you’re just going to replace more stuff.

Adam Kampbell  42:38

Trucks got 500,000 miles on it versus no miles, odds of having an issue are going to be greater. Yeah, of course. So you know that. That being said, the extended warranty is an option on us trucks that can work MHC sales, and we try to advise that every time just because you don’t want to be making a payment on the truck. And spin $15,000 at a shop. Yeah. So. But yeah, I mean, the likelihood of repairs is higher in USD. And

Jeremy Kellett  43:10

the only thing else I added up, all mine was resale value, I guess could be, what would you consider that pro con Pro on new condo news.

Todd Venable  43:22

So I’ve got it kind of on both. So we already talked about the pros we have used. And you know, the current market, it’s a buyers market. But I also put it as a con. Because if I purchased a truck three years ago, when the market was high, and I’m trying to trade that truck now, then I might be in a situation where I’m upside down based on what the value is today. So it can be both

Jeremy Kellett  43:48

right. But you’re seeing a lot of that right now. Probably

Todd Venable  43:51

we are we are.

Adam Kampbell  43:53

And there’s you know, kind of play on that one more thing, you know, on the new versus used. So a lot of guys get in a cycle, kind of like he spoke about with the fleets, their own trade cycles. So on a new truck, say you buy one, you plan to keep it for three years, you have warranty the whole time. You tried it after three years, you’re on the plus side of it, you got some equity in it, you come out typically you do, don’t you most of the time, guys, they hit and run it in the ground or miss payments and stuff like that. But yeah, if they’re making the payments, they get to the good side of it. They’ve got some equity in that truck. A lot of times in those situations, a guy that trades every three or four years. He gets a new one without having to put any money down because he can take that equity out of that huge truck and roll it in. And then he’s got a new truck every four years and he’s always got warranty. And so a lot of guys, that’s what they want to get to, or they have gotten to and that’s the way that it works best for them.

Jeremy Kellett  44:51

Yeah, yeah, I mean, that’s what seemed like the smart thing to do. You know, but, but there’s some guys out there that you gotta get There, you gotta get there. You gotta be able to get there first. You gotta take that step, getting that used truck,

Adam Kampbell  45:06

right. And we’ve sold some used trucks to some Oakley guys over here that had great luck coming, just never having issues, you know, you just don’t know what you’re gonna get. Yeah, we hope that’s the case but you just don’t know.

Jeremy Kellett  45:20

Yeah, I think it’s a, you know, it’s just everybody has a different preference on it and and it’s a it’s a lot of it’s what they can afford but eventually, I think their goal is to be able to I mean, I would think an owner operators goal is to be able to spec me out a truck, man I’ve hit I’ve hit the top when I can get my own truck right for the job I’m doing and spec it out the way I want to, like it would be good. A couple other things. parts availability, we covered that a little bit with the maintenance and stuff. Is that still an issue? Or has it gotten better?

Todd Venable  46:00

It’s gotten a whole lot better. There are some pockets where it’s an issue. So yeah, we talked, we still talk about it. Yeah. Yeah.

Jeremy Kellett  46:10

I mean, what can you do? Right? We talked about fuel efficiency. That was one of my questions. Is the fuel face efficiency getting better with the new trucks? I mean, all the time, it seems like I guess definitely a yes. Yeah, it’s gotta be

Adam Kampbell  46:25

its top priority. Pretty much. For all the manufacturers, I mean,

Jeremy Kellett  46:31

that all beef trucks go. Right, get some better fuel mileage, I mean, and, and help these guys gotta have these trucks.

Adam Kampbell  46:40

It kind of plays into the EPA, along with the emissions. I mean, manufacturers get credits for building fuel efficient trucks. And it’s kind of a confusing thing. But it plays into how many hood trucks you can build versus aerodynamic trucks. And there’s some sort of equation the government has their hand in that as well. So all the manufacturers are trying to build fuel efficient trucks. So one last sign here talked about the preadmission trucks.

Jeremy Kellett  47:12

You know, you guys are still seeing a bunch of those main or they are? If you have an opportunity to get your hands on one, do you buy it? And then it goes, it’s gonna sell quickly, or, or is it? No, because you probably can’t find it. I don’t know if people who can finance it were an old five model, and oh, seven model. That’s the trick. That’s it. That’s it.

Adam Kampbell  47:32

We do see them. We actually have one right now. Yeah. So Oh, that’d be a 998 model. So the deal is on those like, you’re not going to get financed, unless you’ve got a credit line through your personal bank that you can borrow from, you’re not going to find a commercial lender that’s going to loan you the money on a 2000 model.

Jeremy Kellett  47:51

Is the demand still pretty high for those troops? Prediction troops?

Adam Kampbell  47:55

I’d say there’s people that look for him. But not as many as there used to

Jeremy Kellett  48:00

be. Yeah. used to when a rule first came out. Yeah, they were all you know, you couldn’t find I wished I’d had a yard following seven. Yeah, yeah. I mean, they’re selling like hotcakes back then. But you know, I mean, now I mean, you can’t get it worked on. You gotta take it to me. Y’all can’t work on a pre admissions drive.

Todd Venable  48:20

Now we can’t have pre admission, what we can’t work on is a truck that’s been deleted.

Jeremy Kellett  48:24

I’m sorry.

Todd Venable  48:25

So we’re not scared of pre-admission trucks in terms of purchasing them, we just have to be in them right knowing that these trucks are going to not be financed, like Adam pointed out and somebody’s got to come to the table with cash. And so you just got to be in them. 

Jeremy Kellett  48:42

Because finance companies don’t want

Adam Kampbell  48:45

most of the time what I’ve experienced, just personally, the guys looking for those trucks are usually local guys that are, you know, not running coast to coast. They’re usually regional or, or whatnot, and they just don’t want to have to deal with electronic logs or something. Yeah, right.

Jeremy Kellett  49:04

Okay, the last thing I got is that we’re gonna close on this one. This one’s for you to tell me about this anniversary trip parked out here in the parking lot.

Todd Venable  49:13

Well, Ken works 100th anniversary of building trucks this year, so they came out with a W 900. Special Edition truck. So it’s got some neat badging on the inside that signifies that it is 100 standard bursary, so it’s a special truck. They’re also identified by the serial number of the truck. Only Adam helped me out with it. 900 Over 900 of the W nines built that are going to be the anniversary edition. I have a special paint scheme. Really neat. Interior Design all sizes. Now you can get them in a studio. There are some that are 72 inch mid roofs. We’ve even got some t 680s. Now there’s more of those built in the 900 W nine hundreds. But real eye, eye catching truck. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You guys parked it out here in our yard for a few days. It’s short and beautiful interior. We’re really proud of what work could do with it.

Adam Kampbell  50:17

You know, they did the icon back a few years ago. And then, you know, Peterbilt had some number trucks. It’s just, it’s just neat. Yeah, you know, it’s cool to say I’ve got number 322 out of 900. Yeah, it is. Yeah. But

Jeremy Kellett  50:31

100 years in business. It’s pretty impressive. Yeah. I mean, that’s the tour celebration. Yeah, it is. Yeah. Yeah. Good. Anything else you guys like to add? Oh, I covered it.

Adam Kampbell  50:43

I appreciate you having Yeah,

Todd Venable  50:44

Thank you. Oh, yeah, I

Jeremy Kellett  50:46

appreciate y’all sitting down with me doing this. I think this is good information for everybody out there, not just our owner operators make decisions about people we’re recruiting but you know, just to help them, give them some pros and cons of what’s best for them, maybe in their scenario and things to watch out for.

Adam Kampbell  51:02

So yeah, I will say one last thing, you know, whatever suits the person, you know, everybody’s different. Everybody has, you know, a different past and a different, you know, circumstances. So, you know, it might make sense for somebody to buy us versus new might make sense for somebody to buy new versus used. And I can’t wait to see all the comments. We will Yeah, we want to help everybody out.

Jeremy Kellett  51:25

I can’t wait to see what all the comments we get on this stuff. So I appreciate everybody. And speaking of comments, be sure and give us some comments down here. What you want to hear is what you thought about the episode. It really is nice. And if you have questions for Todd or, or I had him in course, give him a call, or you might see Kenworth here in Little Rock, or you can send them to me, I’ll be glad to pass them along to him. But you know, I appreciate everybody listening to this podcast. You guys do a great job of giving me feedback. And it’s always good to have a good, good listener base out there. So if you have questions, let us know the other night we’ll talk to you next week. Thanks. Thanks for listening to this episode with Oakley podcast, trucking, business and family. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to rate or review the show in the podcast platform of your choice and share it with a friend. We love hearing from our audience. So if you’ve got a question, comment or just want to say hello, head over to our website, the Oakley podcast.com and click the leave a comment button. We’ll get you a response soon and may even share some of the best ones here on the show. We’ll be back with a fresh episode very soon. Thanks for listening.